Ian & Stuart's Australian Mac: Not for Sale/Another.not.for.sale (Australia).iso/no need to argue/Dr Tom Gun Interview

Text File | 1994-06-26 | 10KB | 182 lines

A Dr. Tom Interview with Aaron Zelman

Executive Director of Jews for the
Preservations of Firearms Ownership



Dr. Tom was in Milwaukee January 5, 1994 and had the opportunity to
interview Aaron Zelman, the Executive Director of Jews for the
Preservation of Firearms Ownership. Mr. Zelman 's organization has
2500 members nationwide and bills itself as America 's aggressive civil
rights organization.

Dr. Tom: First off I'd like to get your reaction to the Brady Bill. Do you
view this as a major step toward gun control?

Aaron Zelman: On the surface the Brady Bill seems like a very
innocuous thing, but in reality we've already seen that the Brady Bill
was, as gun control advocates have said, only a first step. One of the
things the Brady Bill did was raise the firearms dealers' licensing fees
from $60 every three years to $200 every three years. Gun control
advocates weren't satisfied with that so already we're seeing a proposal
to raise the fee to $600 a year. The Brady Bill pushed that along. The
Brady Bill won't do a thing to stop criminals from getting firearms. All
it will do is create a window of opportunity for criminals to prey on
unarmed citizens. So, if you are pro-rapist or pro-mugger, the Brady Bill
is a piece of legislation you must support.

Dr. Tom: Speaking of the proposed increase in dealer licensing fees,
I've seen it estimated that the increase would drive 80% or so of the
current gun dealers out of business. What, if any, are the implications of
that?

Zelman: Currently there are about 190,000 active gun dealers in the
country. Gun dealers keep on file a Firearms Transaction Record (ATF
Form 4473) which contains all the information necessary to identify and
trace any individual gun purchaser. At present the government only has
access to these forms when a particular gun has been used in a crime.
The federal government at this date has no comprehensive file of gun
owners, and so would have great difficulty in confiscating weapons in
the hands of law abiding citizens. However, under current law, if a gun
dealer goes out of business he is required to turn over all of his Form
4473's to the federal government. If 80% of active gun dealers are
forced out of business, the government will inherit all the information on
the customers of about 150,000 gun dealers. This information will
enable the ATF to begin a comprehensive file of American gun owners.
No one can be sure how many gun purchase forms each dealer
possesses, but assuming a conservative estimate of 50 forms per dealer,
the government would be able to begin a registry with 7.5 million names
of law abiding gum owners.

Dr. Tom: Some states already have mandatory gun registration laws.
What has been the experience in those states?

 Zelman: As far as gun registration laws go, they are easier said than
done. There's been an effort to register military-type weapons.
California and New Jersey have enacted bans. But the non-compliance
rate has been extremely high. People would rather be felons than register
their guns. This is extremely important to remember.

Dr. Tom: Your organization seems to see a historical connection
between gun control laws and oppression and genocide particularly as
was the case in Nazi Germany. What sort of scenario do you envision
for the United States in which guns would be removed from the hands of
private citizens?

Zelman: I don't have a crystal ball, so I can only look at it from the
historical prospective. Historically, you've had gun control laws enacted
when governments are in deep economic trouble, or when governments
are getting involved in war, or when governments are simply going bad.
It's any body's guess what's really going on in America. I know we
have economic problems. The welfare situation is literally ripping out
the financial life blood of the American economy. So that has to be
addressed, and quickly. If it isn't, there is no economic future for this
country. There are millions with their hands out for the public dole
going, "Gimme, gimme, gimme." War, I don't think we're going to
war. But who knows what the wizards have planned for us. As far as
governments going bad. . . well, I think that 'you see it happening.
There's the effort to destroy the military, to reduce its effectiveness.
There's this idiotic nonsense they call public education. You have the
economic problems. And you have a government that seems to be
creating racial strife rather than trying to solve the problems. All of this
sounds to me like a formula for disaster. But it's any body's guess which
way it's going to go.

Dr. Tom: Do you believe that any types of weapons or ammunition
should be banned?

Zelman: I don't think that gun control schemes or product control
schemes are the solution to any of the problems in America. All they do
is create another problem. You have to look at all these bans for what
they are. It's just Prohibition all over again. We had Prohibition in
America for booze, and all it did was organize crime and make some
corrupt politicians wealthy. Why should it be any different this time?
The government can talk about prohibiting things all they want but
organized crime will simply build a pipeline. There will be more guns
around than there are now and they won't be registered.

Dr. Tom: How about so called "cop killer" ammo. . . teflon bullets and
black talon bullets?

 Zelman: Teflon bullets are not available and never have been available
to the general public. They were made by a manufacturer, ATF, and
they were only available to law enforcement and the military. So they
aren't really an issue. Black Talon bullets are similar to a number of
bullets on the market with less lethal sounding names. The idea of trying
to ban bullets is about as idiotic as trying to ban beer. It's nonsense.

Dr. Tom: Your organization emphasizes the historical parallel of the use
of gun control in Nazi Germany. What, exactly happened there?

Zelman: What happened in Nazi Germany shows the danger of gun
control. The Nazis inherited their gun control law. In 1928 the Weimar
Republic brought about a gun registration scheme that also registered
firearm owners. Five years later, when the Weimar Republic fell and the
Nazis came to power they inherited the registration lists. That's the
danger of gun control. . . you never know who's going to get their hand
on those lists. In 1938, following Krystalnacht the Nazis enacted a law
forbidding Jews from owning guns, knives or clubs. A few years later
when the Jews were being rounded up and taken away to death camps,
they were not able to offer any resistance. Their weapons, registered
under the Weimar gun control law had, by that time, been taken away.
So the Nazi situation simply shows that gun control works really well if
you're a totalitarian government in power planning to murder millions of
people.

Dr. Tom: I noticed one of your organizations is entitled "Dial 911 and
Die.'' Would you tell me a little about that?

Zelman: "Dial 911 and Die" deals with actual court decisions proving
two things. First, you have no Constitutional right to police protection.
Though your tax dollars pay their salaries, buy their cars, and pay their
pensions you have no right to police protection even though you're
paying for it. Second the court decisions shown here prove that the
police have no obligation to answer your call for help. The exception to
this is if there is a prior agreement by police to provide protection as in
the case of a police informant. Bowers vs. DeVito (U.S. Court of
Appeals, Seventh circuit, 1982) is the really pivotal case here on which a
lot of other decisions are e based. The end result of all this is our strong
belief that people must have the right to carry e weapons on their person-
-concealed or otherwise--so that they have the ability to defend their
lives against the criminals that the criminal justice system has failed to
lock up. The police are not required to provide such protection.

Dr. Tom: Are there any countries in which the citizens are encouraged
to arm themselves? Zelman: Switzerland is one example. Gun ownership
per capita is extremely high. Those that are fit for military service keep
a service rifle. The crime rate is very low because a criminal realizes
that the odds are very high that he will get killed. Israel has similar
provisions. They keep their M16's and their Gallil rifles right at home.

Dr. Tom: How about handguns and concealable weapons in Israel?

Zelman: Israel has provisions for handguns. In some areas--the larger
metropolitan areas, Tel Aviv, for instance--the government encourages
citizens to carry guns, concealed or otherwise, whatever the citizen's
preference. But they are rather strict. They want you to take an extensive
safety and proficiency course, and then you get your license. They want
to make sure that if you pull the gun you will use it and shoot the bad
guy, not some by-stander.

Dr: Tom: Does that seem to you like what our second amendment had in
mind--a militia meaning an armed citizenry?

Zelman: Yes, in a way, however they don't have a constitution in Israel.
Their policy is based more on Jewish law. If someone comes
of to kill you, you have a duty to defend yourself,  to kill your attacker.

Dr. Tom: What you're saying then is that Jewish law dictates that you
must kill in certain situations. Doesn't this go a little against the sixth
commandment  "Thou shalt not kill?"

Zelman: Not at all. In fact this is a case where the English speaking
world has been affected subliminally by a faulty translation in the King
James and subsequent English bibles. What the original scripture says is,
"Thou shalt not murder. "
Murder, of course, of is quite different than killing in self-defense.
Other scriptures make it quite plain that you not only may, but you must
kill in self defense. If someone comes to take your life, God commands
you to kill him.